Comments on The Crymes Syndicate: Unless You're the Cleavers, This is Going to Suck

oh yea im one of those "me too" ppl! my ...

2010-08-27T11:09:03.211-07:00

oh yea im one of those "me too" ppl! my rents divorced when i was 5 and the relief i felt.. GOD! but i got to thinkin the samething as what you say here... if i wasnt born... well my mom could have gone to that art school and not have had to live with my grandfather for another 5 years, my dad would have been free to be a kid at 20 instead of at 30 so on and so forth. BUT THEN i thought, well thats fate isnt it? for some reason i am suppose to be here and so whoever makes these types of decisions decided that those two , who were a match made in matrimony hell, should procreate to make me! now who knows maybe ill be the first lady president or something and itll all make sense. maybe not! but theres a reason those two got together, and a reason that i had to live with them apart! and theres a reason for you too which im guessing is in part to make an awesome blog to entertain moi! :)

Although I'm the one that made that comment, I...

2010-06-08T19:19:00.892-07:00

Although I'm the one that made that comment, I'm only just now reading the post. I'm glad that you seem to have understood that I wasn't trying to make it seem that being at home with both parents who should divorce and then do later is harder or the same, or really all that comparable to being a child of divorce - it's not at all. I cannot imagine what it was like for you, and you're completely right, that I'm biased because I'm looking at it with more mature eyes.

Being an adult child of divorce has been a relief and incredibly sad and hard... But looking back, I was so upset with my dad when my mom raged against me (and kicked me out of the house) and he let it happen. When I was younger it was my dad whose anger I was afraid of. I have vivid memories of running away from home during their fights to my neighbor's house and standing out there, 11 or so, wishing they were home. Ugh. But to be fair, I have some memories of happy times together.

When I went to pre-marital counseling, it was interesting to discover that DH and I needed to learn how to fight, because his (v. happily married and wonderful!) parents rarely fought in front of him, and mine did all the time - so he doesn't know how to express himself and I'm scared of it.

As Tolstoy wrote, "Happy families are all alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

My own parents got divorced when I was 10, my sist...

2010-06-07T06:08:42.620-07:00

My own parents got divorced when I was 10, my sister was 8, and my little brother was probably around a year old. It came as a complete shock to both me and my sister who'd never seen our parents fight almost ever. No matter how old I get I struggle to remember even one instance of them fighting. As all my friends' parents were getting divorced while I was growing up, I always thought "That could never happen to my parents." I couldn't have even imagined it any other way at the time. While one could argue that not seeing my parents fight was better for us, I think the fact that I NEVER saw them fight fucked us up even more.

At first my father only lived a few towns away. We saw him every weekend, and never had time for friends on the weekends because we were too far away to see them, (this sounds selfish of me I know, but friends are important to kids growing up.) That's the way things were for about a year or so. Then my father moved 8 hours away, and we only ever saw him on the big holidays (which meant we had to follow him around at work half the time because he works retail). When we were there to see him, I remember laying awake at night hearing him cry.

Nowadays, he lives only a couple hours away, and he complains that he doesn't see me enough. Which sends me on a gigantic guilt trip, but at 23 years old I have work, college, etc. etc. I'm okay now. I've dealt with this in my own way, and my father really is a great father. But my sister on the other hand, has been completely FUBARed. And I blame the divorce, and my mother remarrying a complete asshole who couldn't give a shit less about her kids. My father should have been there to put the fear of God in her (because my father was a lot better at this then my mother) when she started going off the beaten path. Now at 21 years old I barely recognize my sister as my own. This is what breaks my heart more than anything. The idea that maybe my sister could have been saved. Now none of us know what to do for her and she only gets worse. (My brother is fine, like you said, he doesn't remember what it was like to have parents that lived together.)

While there are some situations where parents definitely shouldn't stay together, I also think people today give up too easily simply because divorce is such a commonly accepted thing of today's society therefore making it the easy way out. What bothers me about divorcees, is that I feel like no one even tries anymore, or in the very least, is that they didn't think twice about who they were actually marrying at the time, which is equally as bad.

@Martha - That's precisely what I mean. It isn...

2010-06-05T22:52:35.754-07:00

@Martha - That's precisely what I mean. It isn't the divorce itself that snaps you, it's the (unavoidable) fallout. Part of that fallout is the fact that even in a 50/50 custody situation, there will be times when a child desperately needs the parent that isn't there (whichever one that is at the moment.) And that parent not being there? It f*cks you up in ways that a kid just can't process.

Part of my issue is that I was old enough to know that I'd HAD both parents - and then suddenly I didn't. For my sister, who was younger, the divorce messed with her in *other* ways - but because she didn't know any different, she didn't rage half as hard.

This is why "staying together for the kids" doesn't work either. Kids born to sets of parents who just can't hack it together are screwed either way - though the maturity/amicability of the parents can definitely *lessen* (though not eradicate completely) the collateral damage in the event of a divorce.

(By the way, read your post about A. beginning nights over with her Dad. Broke my heart, because I remember that era for me - but you guys are working SO HARD to do right by her. I think her situation is far, far more positive than mine was. I respect the hell out of the way you guys handle the whole situation. :-) )

I'm certainly not denigrating your experience ...

2010-06-05T21:14:17.432-07:00

I'm certainly not denigrating your experience of having a fucked up childhood, but as a parent who is trying to keep my daughter from being screwed up, I have a different take on this.

My theory is that kids who come from broken homes are not broken because their parents got divorced, it is because they were raised by broken people. Divorce messes with your mind in ways I can't even begin to explain. I can't imagine trying to raise a child while going through that.

I guess I have a sort of unusual experience of div...

2010-06-04T14:24:26.025-07:00

I guess I have a sort of unusual experience of divorce. When I was just a baby, my parents divorced. Then when I was still very small, they remarried. Then when I was 11, they divorced. When I was 13, my dad moved back again, and when I was 15, they remarried. They married 3 times, and never to anyone other than each other. Talk about a mess.

Granted, I had the benefit of being old enough to understand why my parents were divorcing the second time. Prior to divorce #2, things between them were AWFUL. There were constant screaming matches and a couple of times it got physical. (My mom *tried* to slap my dad and my dad pushed her down when he was trying to get in his car to leave.) I knew how volatile my parents' marriage was, and I was *relieved* when they divorced. It was like all the tension and anger that had had our house tied up in knots for months (and really, probably years) suddenly vanished. I *liked* it.

When my parents decided to get back together, I was so angry at both of them I didn't speak to my father for nearly 2 years (and we lived in the same house), and I only barely spoke to my mother for months after. We had gone through so much BEFORE the divorce, that I just couldn't understand why they would want to put us through all of that again. Fortunately, my parents' third marriage went much more smoothly (although there were still fights) and it wasn't nearly as traumatic as it was before. But I still had a lot of anger issues over the fact that earlier in their marriage, it had been so unbelievably difficult, and now it was all gone! It felt like I'd gone through all of that awful stuff for no good reason at all.

For me, their divorce was much less traumatic than either their relationship prior to the divorce or their relationship after they got back together. We have a great relationship now, and they seem to still be happy (it's been over 10 years for round 3, so I guess they're doing something right), and I'm happy for them. But...it took me many years to get over all of it.

I think it's hard to say which is worse or which is better. I'm sure that all depends on the families involved and their specific circumstances. Really, though, it's tough on any family, especially kids, when the two people who are supposed to be stable aren't. It doesn't matter how it all turns out.

Goddamn right-- there is no way to win. Unless it...

2010-06-04T09:42:50.740-07:00

Goddamn right-- there is no way to win. Unless it works out, which is what we all hope for, for ourselves, and for our parents. Excellent post.

@Lisa, Yes, of course one parent eventually has...

2010-06-04T08:53:32.287-07:00

@Lisa,

Yes, of course one parent eventually has to leave. But to young children of divorce, the concept of moving-out-but-not-leaving them makes no sense (though it still bears repeating as often as possible.) All a little kid knows is that one parent or the other has vacated the premises, and for them there's absolutely no way to avoid feeling left behind. The adult in the equation can understand a concept the kids can't grasp - the idea of not leaving them "in your heart," even though you did, in fact, *physically* leave them. Most children of divorce figure it all out eventually, but when we're little, the whole thing is psychologically devastating

And no, I don't believe staying together is the answer either, which is my point, you know? In fact, unless you're Good at Marriage, you're in a no-win situation. The most you can hope for is well-adjusted kids, who eventually grapple with the inevitable feelings of abandonment and split loyalties - and for that to happen, yes, you've got to be honest and available.

Hey Margaret, I enjoyed this post, but must admit ...

2010-06-04T06:57:39.873-07:00

Hey Margaret, I enjoyed this post, but must admit it was painful. I am an adult child of divorce. My parents ended their 44 year marriage when I was 36. When I was 41 I filed for my own divorce (after 18 years of marriage). I think my parents also stayed together long after their marriage was dead. They stayed for the "family". But...I have one question....doesn't ONE parent eventually HAVE to leave. Leave the HOUSE that is. I had to leave, because he wouldn't. I asked for 50:50 custody (time sharing is the phrase). If there are children in a marriage that is ending and there is a custody battle THAT is the problem. Maybe your dad did leave ,having moved on and remarried in 6 months. My father did as well and is now married to a woman 3 years younger than ME. Abandonment is never easy at any age. My defenses raise up against the idea that I left my sons. I left their father. I left my husband. I NEVER left my sons. But children are not equivalent to china, silver and IRA funds. They are not possessions. Do I want them 100% of the time? Damn straight. But, THEY also need their Dad. So, 50:50 it is. Is there any other way? Any better way? And don't say stay married because that is not a reasonable answer. I say the answer is you talk and live truthfully with your kids. One day they may say they felt abandoned for me leaving the house. But, I have also told both my parents that their staying together causes untold psychological damage to all their kids.

My parents got divorced when I was ten. Everyone c...

2010-06-03T20:12:04.916-07:00

My parents got divorced when I was ten. Everyone can say all they want about how it was for the greater good blah, blah, blah. That part was true.

Then my dad (who had custody) remarried one year later and fought with my stepmom instead of my mom.

Either way, with good intentions or bad, every parent will somehow screw up their kid.

"One of my parents moved away and it broke me...

2010-06-03T18:41:34.369-07:00

"One of my parents moved away and it broke me."

That just about broke my heart.

Sigh.

In my personal experience and through what my frie...

2010-06-03T13:43:54.912-07:00

In my personal experience and through what my friends have gone through I tend to think the most important way divorce impacts children is to the extent that they're put in the middle, which almost all the parents I know did, no matter their initial intentions.

I'm an adult child of divorce, but I knew it w...

2010-06-03T13:20:23.004-07:00

I'm an adult child of divorce, but I knew it was coming as early as 12 years old. My parents would fight CONSTANTLY, with mom storming out of the house extremely upset. It was very hard on me. When they finally did split and mom left, things got a lot more peaceful. Now my dad and I fight.

I'm not sure what I would have preferred. I think if they did divorce earlier it would have been a lot more difficult on me. I already was an adopted child (they took me in when I was 8) and had enough complicated family life. I'm sure they were just looking out for me.

If I were to choose between the "stay togethe...

2010-06-03T13:07:19.246-07:00

If I were to choose between the "stay together for the kids" kind of parents or the divorced parents, I would choose the divorced parents. Of course, it would be difficult but in the long run, it would be less stressful. When my dad was alive, he and my mom fought a lot. It was tiring.

Your writing is awesome. You have a way of explaining things and your drawings are cute. :)

I'm with Tara; mine were six, three, and two. ...

2010-06-03T10:16:21.540-07:00

I'm with Tara; mine were six, three, and two. Ugh. The six-year-old is pretty broken and we're all in therapy. The only thing worse would be if we still had to deal with my ex.

I was a child of divorce. I was very young around ...

2010-06-03T09:12:35.428-07:00

I was a child of divorce. I was very young around 3 I think. So I have no memory of my parents together. I had revolving door step fathers all of the bad variety and no influence of my real dad. I think I saw him 4 times growing up and maybe 3 phone calls. When I was old enough I went to meet him and everything was so foreign, I realized there was NO way him and my mom could have been married. I have nurtured a loving healthy relationship with him for 22 years now and the same with my mom. I married young and divorced when my kids were both under 4. Now they are 21 and 18. They were adopted by my husband as teenagers at their request. I wonder if their child of divorce experience was like mine. I didn't know any different so I really had nothing to complain about.

I loved your post - your writing is wonderful and ...

2010-06-03T09:05:43.458-07:00

I loved your post - your writing is wonderful and you've put your finger right on it!

Oh God. This hit so close to home. Not because I...

2010-06-03T08:54:21.256-07:00

Oh God. This hit so close to home. Not because I am a child of divorce, but because I divorced when my eldest was 4 and the other two were about a year old. So I am always looking for clues as to just how badly I have ruined their lives. I think the torn in half girl says it best. Ugh. I think you're right, staying together for the kids creates its own havoc, but it's a different havoc. I sometimes think I should have slogged it through for the kids. I don't know anymore, I am filled with self doubt much of the time. I hate that they have to move from house to house every other week. I wouldn't want to do that, and yet I've done it to them. You're a wonderful writer, but dangit, you've made me sad.